Stability, Gaming and other ramblings
by Anand Lal Shimpi on February 18, 2004 2:57 AM EST- Posted in
- Anand
If you've been following my personal blog as well as the Macdates section you'll know that it's one of those incredibly busy weeks for me; if you haven't been following the personal blog: it has been one of those incredibly busy weeks for me :)
That being said, I'm still using the G5 and there's much more to talk about so let's go for it:
I mentioned that the very first upgrade I tried on the G5 was to stick a full 4GB of some of the fastest OCZ memory I had laying around. I was met with failure at that attempt thanks to Apple's motherboard not playing too well with aggressively timed DDR400. OCZ sent over 8 - 512MB sticks of their G5 DDR400 modules which are rated at 3-3-3-8, the slowest DDR400 I've ever used. Unfortunately it is the only stuff that the G5 will work with. I will admit that for my work machine I never really tweaked memory timings, I just left everything at SPD but in most cases SPD was at least 2-2-3-7. I'd like to see Apple migrate to some faster memory, especially considering the price premium these machines are going for, but that'll most likely have to wait for the next revision of the G5 systems. Lower latency memory will also give more of a benefit on the higher clocked G5s in any case.
The installation process was simple; it is memory after all. Unfortunately the first time I booted up the machine it only recognized 3GB. Luckily OS X's System Profiler will tell you what memory slots on the board are populated so I got the exact banks that weren't registering. I shut the system down, opened up the case (read: lifted a latch and removed a panel) and reseated the two DIMMs that weren't being detected properly. The second boot proved to be successful at 4GB. I did miss having a memory counter at POST to tell me how much memory I had installed before getting into the OS, but waiting a few seconds to get into OS X wasn't too bad.
The added memory helps a lot, right now I'm using 1.55GB and couldn't be happier. The OS seems to handle memory extremely well and will do its best to keep disk accesses from happening when they don't need to. I figure that for my needs ~2GB would be just about enough to have a very smooth running system, but I wouldn't recommend any less than 1GB for anyone putting together a G5 that's a decent multitasker. You can do just fine with only 512MB but throwing more at the OS does help.
When I first started talking about the way OS X favors keeping all programs open I mentioned that stability would be the determining factor as to whether or not this would be a good thing. I can say that I have encountered my first application crashes under OS X and they were as follows:
- Adium crashed when I was tinkering with antialiasing levels for my fonts in system properties; this has since been fixed in an update to Adium.
- Mail crashed randomly while dragging some text from a Safari window into an email
- Safari crashed once, I did not get a chance to completely document the crash; I was just surfing
- Dreamweaver has this issue where the page will disappear in design view while the HTML is there; I have to change something in the code to get the page to appear again. I encountered this problem while writing the ATI roadmap story.
Now the first two crashes were related to me doing funky GUI stuff; the first one has since been fixed and I haven't been able to duplicate the second one. Dreamweaver has issues under XP as well, although I've never seen this one in particular I've seen others so I'd be willing to accept that Dreamweaver was a Macromedia issue. Safari's crash was the first I had encountered, which was a bit surprising since I've been purposefully trying to bring it to its knees and haven't had much luck other than that one time.
So far I'm happy with the stability under OS X; the OS itself hasn't crashed and I would say that it is definitely no less stable than XP at this point and definitely with fewer individual application issues on a regular basis. I do believe (at least on the latest Apple hardware) that the Mac OS stability issues of the past (I've encountered them personally) are not an issue. But another thing to keep in mind is that just as is the case with PCs, a poorly maintained machine will be unstable. People installing everything they see, including poorly written drivers, will bring even the most stable of OSes to its knees - this applies to both OS X and XP. So be careful before you judge the stability of an OS based on a computer you used somewhere; would you really want people calling PCs "unstable" because of a crashy Windows ME machine they used in a public library somewhere? :)
After restarting several failed downloads, I finally got UT2004 to download. First of all, I couldn't find a link to the UT2004 Mac download on any of the official Epic sites when it was first released - I had to go to some Mac enthusiast sites. That's just plain wrong, I'll talk to Epic about it next time I get lunch with Tim and the gang. After I got the demo and installed it I decided to see how gaming on the Mac worked when you've got two displays.
Under XP, you pretty much have to disable your second display or close all the windows on your desktop so they don't get reorganized when running a game at a resolution different than that of your primary display. It is an annoying ordeal, but it's something that should be fixed once and for all in Longhorn. It's what we get for having ATI and NVIDIA late to the multimonitor game, otherwise we would've seen support in XP.
Under OS X, the second display shuts itself off, UT starts on my primary display and then when I'm done both displays return me to my desktop - nothing has moved an inch. I'm happy. It's the simple things that make the platform impressive (e.g. keyboard shortcuts, yes I'm a nut).
The speed of UT2004 at 10x7 on the Radeon 9600 was very good on the G5; the game was definitely smooth, but at higher resolutions the Radeon 9600 began to be a bottleneck. At 10x7 UT2004 is still fairly CPU bottlenecked but the G5s seemed to crunch along nicely. I would estimate that the higher end Athlon 64s and Pentium 4s would be faster, but the gap would definitely narrow at higher resolutions. I asked ATI for both an OEM Radeon 9800 Pro and the 9800 Pro SE so I'll be able to give you an idea of the 3D and more importantly, the 2D performance improvements offered by the two cards. As I mentioned before, once I get over 10 - 15 windows Exposé gets choppy, seemingly a video memory limitation issue. In theory moving to a 128MB/256MB Radeon 9800 should speed things up, but how much memory is necessary and what sort of a performance improvement are we talking? That's what I'm hoping to find out. I think I will start that Mac section on AT, these are the type of questions that need to be answered. The Mac section will not be another Mac vs. PC deal, that's not what the Mac community needs. It will be a section dedicated to Mac hardware and will offer articles like the one I was just talking about (impact of video memory size on Exposé performance), make sense? Any requests for comparisons to start off with? It won't launch until after the new AT database is in place (March) but I'm definitely committed to making it a reality.
As usual, I've got more "how do I?" requests for those with more OS X experience than me :)
1) Is there a keyboard shortcut to maximize a window? Is it even possible?
2) By default is there any keyboard shortcut to launch Terminal?
Hmm I honestly thought I had more questions than those two, I'm sure I'll think of them. It's getting late, time for me to turn in.
Hope you're enjoying these things, I sure am. Take care and goodnight.
That being said, I'm still using the G5 and there's much more to talk about so let's go for it:
I mentioned that the very first upgrade I tried on the G5 was to stick a full 4GB of some of the fastest OCZ memory I had laying around. I was met with failure at that attempt thanks to Apple's motherboard not playing too well with aggressively timed DDR400. OCZ sent over 8 - 512MB sticks of their G5 DDR400 modules which are rated at 3-3-3-8, the slowest DDR400 I've ever used. Unfortunately it is the only stuff that the G5 will work with. I will admit that for my work machine I never really tweaked memory timings, I just left everything at SPD but in most cases SPD was at least 2-2-3-7. I'd like to see Apple migrate to some faster memory, especially considering the price premium these machines are going for, but that'll most likely have to wait for the next revision of the G5 systems. Lower latency memory will also give more of a benefit on the higher clocked G5s in any case.
The installation process was simple; it is memory after all. Unfortunately the first time I booted up the machine it only recognized 3GB. Luckily OS X's System Profiler will tell you what memory slots on the board are populated so I got the exact banks that weren't registering. I shut the system down, opened up the case (read: lifted a latch and removed a panel) and reseated the two DIMMs that weren't being detected properly. The second boot proved to be successful at 4GB. I did miss having a memory counter at POST to tell me how much memory I had installed before getting into the OS, but waiting a few seconds to get into OS X wasn't too bad.
The added memory helps a lot, right now I'm using 1.55GB and couldn't be happier. The OS seems to handle memory extremely well and will do its best to keep disk accesses from happening when they don't need to. I figure that for my needs ~2GB would be just about enough to have a very smooth running system, but I wouldn't recommend any less than 1GB for anyone putting together a G5 that's a decent multitasker. You can do just fine with only 512MB but throwing more at the OS does help.
When I first started talking about the way OS X favors keeping all programs open I mentioned that stability would be the determining factor as to whether or not this would be a good thing. I can say that I have encountered my first application crashes under OS X and they were as follows:
- Adium crashed when I was tinkering with antialiasing levels for my fonts in system properties; this has since been fixed in an update to Adium.
- Mail crashed randomly while dragging some text from a Safari window into an email
- Safari crashed once, I did not get a chance to completely document the crash; I was just surfing
- Dreamweaver has this issue where the page will disappear in design view while the HTML is there; I have to change something in the code to get the page to appear again. I encountered this problem while writing the ATI roadmap story.
Now the first two crashes were related to me doing funky GUI stuff; the first one has since been fixed and I haven't been able to duplicate the second one. Dreamweaver has issues under XP as well, although I've never seen this one in particular I've seen others so I'd be willing to accept that Dreamweaver was a Macromedia issue. Safari's crash was the first I had encountered, which was a bit surprising since I've been purposefully trying to bring it to its knees and haven't had much luck other than that one time.
So far I'm happy with the stability under OS X; the OS itself hasn't crashed and I would say that it is definitely no less stable than XP at this point and definitely with fewer individual application issues on a regular basis. I do believe (at least on the latest Apple hardware) that the Mac OS stability issues of the past (I've encountered them personally) are not an issue. But another thing to keep in mind is that just as is the case with PCs, a poorly maintained machine will be unstable. People installing everything they see, including poorly written drivers, will bring even the most stable of OSes to its knees - this applies to both OS X and XP. So be careful before you judge the stability of an OS based on a computer you used somewhere; would you really want people calling PCs "unstable" because of a crashy Windows ME machine they used in a public library somewhere? :)
After restarting several failed downloads, I finally got UT2004 to download. First of all, I couldn't find a link to the UT2004 Mac download on any of the official Epic sites when it was first released - I had to go to some Mac enthusiast sites. That's just plain wrong, I'll talk to Epic about it next time I get lunch with Tim and the gang. After I got the demo and installed it I decided to see how gaming on the Mac worked when you've got two displays.
Under XP, you pretty much have to disable your second display or close all the windows on your desktop so they don't get reorganized when running a game at a resolution different than that of your primary display. It is an annoying ordeal, but it's something that should be fixed once and for all in Longhorn. It's what we get for having ATI and NVIDIA late to the multimonitor game, otherwise we would've seen support in XP.
Under OS X, the second display shuts itself off, UT starts on my primary display and then when I'm done both displays return me to my desktop - nothing has moved an inch. I'm happy. It's the simple things that make the platform impressive (e.g. keyboard shortcuts, yes I'm a nut).
The speed of UT2004 at 10x7 on the Radeon 9600 was very good on the G5; the game was definitely smooth, but at higher resolutions the Radeon 9600 began to be a bottleneck. At 10x7 UT2004 is still fairly CPU bottlenecked but the G5s seemed to crunch along nicely. I would estimate that the higher end Athlon 64s and Pentium 4s would be faster, but the gap would definitely narrow at higher resolutions. I asked ATI for both an OEM Radeon 9800 Pro and the 9800 Pro SE so I'll be able to give you an idea of the 3D and more importantly, the 2D performance improvements offered by the two cards. As I mentioned before, once I get over 10 - 15 windows Exposé gets choppy, seemingly a video memory limitation issue. In theory moving to a 128MB/256MB Radeon 9800 should speed things up, but how much memory is necessary and what sort of a performance improvement are we talking? That's what I'm hoping to find out. I think I will start that Mac section on AT, these are the type of questions that need to be answered. The Mac section will not be another Mac vs. PC deal, that's not what the Mac community needs. It will be a section dedicated to Mac hardware and will offer articles like the one I was just talking about (impact of video memory size on Exposé performance), make sense? Any requests for comparisons to start off with? It won't launch until after the new AT database is in place (March) but I'm definitely committed to making it a reality.
As usual, I've got more "how do I?" requests for those with more OS X experience than me :)
1) Is there a keyboard shortcut to maximize a window? Is it even possible?
2) By default is there any keyboard shortcut to launch Terminal?
Hmm I honestly thought I had more questions than those two, I'm sure I'll think of them. It's getting late, time for me to turn in.
Hope you're enjoying these things, I sure am. Take care and goodnight.
44 Comments
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Lucian - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
Anand,,The retail Mac Radeon 9800 Pro has DVI, VGA, and S-video out connectors and is physically identical to the PC board. It is compatible with G4s _and_ G5s. (I was able to dig up the installation instructions ATI posted on their site.) You're right, it's not the best option for running dual digital displays, but as i mentioned earlier, it does support the ATI OpenGL Overrides. If you want to compare FSAA and AF in games that don't support those options via the in-game menus, then you might want to (re)consider.
Also, the Mac Radeon 9800 Pro SE is clocked identically to the Radeon 9800 Pro. For the OEM and SE boards that don't have the external power connector, I believe the extra power is drawn from the same source that supplies power to the ADC.
Lastly, it's highly unlikely you'll see a dual ADC video card because the cost to the consumer would be prohibitively high. Only a minute number of Mac users could need and afford such a product. I found it surprising enough that ATI chose to introduce an expensive, G5-only video card (the SE) before a midrange, mainstream card like the 9600 Pro.
In any case, I can't wait to read your article.
joe - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
Did I say not to miss GarageBand. Quote from the Chicago Times review:t's addictive and compelling. It makes all kinds of brain-sauces slosh around in approving ways and it quickly puts you under some sort of delightful hoodoo trance. Last night I fired it up, intending only to create a couple of screenshots to possibly illustrate this column.
It was ten minutes' work, tops, but the last thing I remember was harmlessly plugging a mic into my PowerBook's sound-in jack and tuning up my ukulele. Then I was looking at a ten-track recording of "Amazing Grace" featuring two uke parts, four vocal parts, and a harmonica, organ, upright bass and acoustic guitar.
And it was six o'clock in the freaking morning.
Yes. It's Tetris, reincarnated. It encourages you to play with it and the moment you pick up the mouse you become submerged in a creative challenge. By the time you come back up for air, your significant other has committed a series of infidelities and your plants aren't doing too well, either.
joe - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
I waiting to hear your comments on GarageBand. It is the digital age. Steve Jobs says 1/3 of everyone has or will play a musical instrument. Look at the big picture of where Apple is going with there platform of hardware and software and digital integration. Intel makes chips. Microsoft makes software. Other software and hardware vendors make other products. Dell gathers them up and puts them all in a box. Here is another glowing review of GarageBand. It should be huge for Apple and plays right into the IPOD strength.http://www.suntimes.com/output/worktech/cst-fin-an...
lookmark - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
Oh, as for maximizing a window (as opposed to he default zoom behavior, which maximizes the window to its content)... unfortunately, there's no OS-level standard for this. Some apps treat an shift-click to the green Zoom button as Maximize (OmniWeb is one), but many others won't.This behavior could definitely use a rethink, and a good deal of improvement.
lookmark - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
As mentioned in an earlier post, Apple provides a way to assign custom keyboard shortcuts in System preferences/Keyboard & Mouse/Keyboard Shortcuts.Personally, though, I find that it's a pretty clunky, bare-bones interface for doing such things, and if you're serious about creating your own macros, I recommend a third-party utility such as iKey, Keyboard Maestro, HotApp, Butler, or LaunchBar. There's a few freeware hot key / macro apps out there as well.
Enjoy!
robg1701 - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
Oh, and I agree with #4, turning off the 2nd display seems like a crude method to me. I have a tri-monitor setup of 19+22+19" (imminently becoming quad screens with the 28"WS TV) and I never turn the secondarys off anymore. I mostly play at desktop resolution, but there are a few games I have which simply dont support resolutions that high. For those i either reposition the monitors supposed locations, or simply get on with it and put up with a little reorganisation going on whilst its loading ;)The only game ive ever turned them off for was splinter cell, which whilst playable with them on, did show slight graphical glitches unles they were off (but i think we can all agree it had more than its fair share of those ;P).
robg1701 - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
Anand, you can get round the secondary monitors windows/icons resizing/moving in non-desktop-resolution gaming on the PC by locating your secondary monitor on the left of the primary, as locations are derived from the left edge of the primry monitor.Utilities like Ultramon (www.realtimesoft.com) can make shortcuts that will allow custom monitor positioning whilst running an application, so you can use it to 'move' your monitor to the left of primary before running the game, and have it resotre it to its normal righthand position afterwards.
Brent S - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
It sounds like you are really trying to stay impartial during this trial, and I commend that. Its really difficult to do this, being that the whole Mac v. PC thing has a nearly inescapable tendency to polarize computer users.As far as the 'proper maintenance' issue goes, I am going to have to second an earlier post. This is pretty much a non-issue with OS X. Unless you are installing hacks to modify OS behavior, you can install pretty much whatever the hell you want and remove it by dragging it to the trash without any repercussions. The OS does a great job of isolating the user from the more sensitive areas where damage can be done while maintaining a good level of performance.
FreshPrince - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
Anand, have you played with su yet?osx is pretty much the same as linux, once you get in su, everything you can do with linux distros you can pretty much do with osx, it's pretty sweet. Try it out if you haven't already done so :-)
-FP
Alastair Jardine - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
You mentioned a KB shortcut for terminal? Well, there isn't one that I know of, but I can recommend an application to help you out: LaunchbarAll it does is sit in the background doing not a lot, and you bring it up by pressing command-space, typing the first few letters of the item you want to bring up (e.g. an address, email, document, application, system prefs pane, etc etc etc) and it launches it. It uses zero screen space when not in use, and once you get hooked, you will not be able to be without it again.
Get it here http://www.obdev.com/
Enjoy!