Stability, Gaming and other ramblings
by Anand Lal Shimpi on February 18, 2004 2:57 AM EST- Posted in
- Anand
If you've been following my personal blog as well as the Macdates section you'll know that it's one of those incredibly busy weeks for me; if you haven't been following the personal blog: it has been one of those incredibly busy weeks for me :)
That being said, I'm still using the G5 and there's much more to talk about so let's go for it:
I mentioned that the very first upgrade I tried on the G5 was to stick a full 4GB of some of the fastest OCZ memory I had laying around. I was met with failure at that attempt thanks to Apple's motherboard not playing too well with aggressively timed DDR400. OCZ sent over 8 - 512MB sticks of their G5 DDR400 modules which are rated at 3-3-3-8, the slowest DDR400 I've ever used. Unfortunately it is the only stuff that the G5 will work with. I will admit that for my work machine I never really tweaked memory timings, I just left everything at SPD but in most cases SPD was at least 2-2-3-7. I'd like to see Apple migrate to some faster memory, especially considering the price premium these machines are going for, but that'll most likely have to wait for the next revision of the G5 systems. Lower latency memory will also give more of a benefit on the higher clocked G5s in any case.
The installation process was simple; it is memory after all. Unfortunately the first time I booted up the machine it only recognized 3GB. Luckily OS X's System Profiler will tell you what memory slots on the board are populated so I got the exact banks that weren't registering. I shut the system down, opened up the case (read: lifted a latch and removed a panel) and reseated the two DIMMs that weren't being detected properly. The second boot proved to be successful at 4GB. I did miss having a memory counter at POST to tell me how much memory I had installed before getting into the OS, but waiting a few seconds to get into OS X wasn't too bad.
The added memory helps a lot, right now I'm using 1.55GB and couldn't be happier. The OS seems to handle memory extremely well and will do its best to keep disk accesses from happening when they don't need to. I figure that for my needs ~2GB would be just about enough to have a very smooth running system, but I wouldn't recommend any less than 1GB for anyone putting together a G5 that's a decent multitasker. You can do just fine with only 512MB but throwing more at the OS does help.
When I first started talking about the way OS X favors keeping all programs open I mentioned that stability would be the determining factor as to whether or not this would be a good thing. I can say that I have encountered my first application crashes under OS X and they were as follows:
- Adium crashed when I was tinkering with antialiasing levels for my fonts in system properties; this has since been fixed in an update to Adium.
- Mail crashed randomly while dragging some text from a Safari window into an email
- Safari crashed once, I did not get a chance to completely document the crash; I was just surfing
- Dreamweaver has this issue where the page will disappear in design view while the HTML is there; I have to change something in the code to get the page to appear again. I encountered this problem while writing the ATI roadmap story.
Now the first two crashes were related to me doing funky GUI stuff; the first one has since been fixed and I haven't been able to duplicate the second one. Dreamweaver has issues under XP as well, although I've never seen this one in particular I've seen others so I'd be willing to accept that Dreamweaver was a Macromedia issue. Safari's crash was the first I had encountered, which was a bit surprising since I've been purposefully trying to bring it to its knees and haven't had much luck other than that one time.
So far I'm happy with the stability under OS X; the OS itself hasn't crashed and I would say that it is definitely no less stable than XP at this point and definitely with fewer individual application issues on a regular basis. I do believe (at least on the latest Apple hardware) that the Mac OS stability issues of the past (I've encountered them personally) are not an issue. But another thing to keep in mind is that just as is the case with PCs, a poorly maintained machine will be unstable. People installing everything they see, including poorly written drivers, will bring even the most stable of OSes to its knees - this applies to both OS X and XP. So be careful before you judge the stability of an OS based on a computer you used somewhere; would you really want people calling PCs "unstable" because of a crashy Windows ME machine they used in a public library somewhere? :)
After restarting several failed downloads, I finally got UT2004 to download. First of all, I couldn't find a link to the UT2004 Mac download on any of the official Epic sites when it was first released - I had to go to some Mac enthusiast sites. That's just plain wrong, I'll talk to Epic about it next time I get lunch with Tim and the gang. After I got the demo and installed it I decided to see how gaming on the Mac worked when you've got two displays.
Under XP, you pretty much have to disable your second display or close all the windows on your desktop so they don't get reorganized when running a game at a resolution different than that of your primary display. It is an annoying ordeal, but it's something that should be fixed once and for all in Longhorn. It's what we get for having ATI and NVIDIA late to the multimonitor game, otherwise we would've seen support in XP.
Under OS X, the second display shuts itself off, UT starts on my primary display and then when I'm done both displays return me to my desktop - nothing has moved an inch. I'm happy. It's the simple things that make the platform impressive (e.g. keyboard shortcuts, yes I'm a nut).
The speed of UT2004 at 10x7 on the Radeon 9600 was very good on the G5; the game was definitely smooth, but at higher resolutions the Radeon 9600 began to be a bottleneck. At 10x7 UT2004 is still fairly CPU bottlenecked but the G5s seemed to crunch along nicely. I would estimate that the higher end Athlon 64s and Pentium 4s would be faster, but the gap would definitely narrow at higher resolutions. I asked ATI for both an OEM Radeon 9800 Pro and the 9800 Pro SE so I'll be able to give you an idea of the 3D and more importantly, the 2D performance improvements offered by the two cards. As I mentioned before, once I get over 10 - 15 windows Exposé gets choppy, seemingly a video memory limitation issue. In theory moving to a 128MB/256MB Radeon 9800 should speed things up, but how much memory is necessary and what sort of a performance improvement are we talking? That's what I'm hoping to find out. I think I will start that Mac section on AT, these are the type of questions that need to be answered. The Mac section will not be another Mac vs. PC deal, that's not what the Mac community needs. It will be a section dedicated to Mac hardware and will offer articles like the one I was just talking about (impact of video memory size on Exposé performance), make sense? Any requests for comparisons to start off with? It won't launch until after the new AT database is in place (March) but I'm definitely committed to making it a reality.
As usual, I've got more "how do I?" requests for those with more OS X experience than me :)
1) Is there a keyboard shortcut to maximize a window? Is it even possible?
2) By default is there any keyboard shortcut to launch Terminal?
Hmm I honestly thought I had more questions than those two, I'm sure I'll think of them. It's getting late, time for me to turn in.
Hope you're enjoying these things, I sure am. Take care and goodnight.
That being said, I'm still using the G5 and there's much more to talk about so let's go for it:
I mentioned that the very first upgrade I tried on the G5 was to stick a full 4GB of some of the fastest OCZ memory I had laying around. I was met with failure at that attempt thanks to Apple's motherboard not playing too well with aggressively timed DDR400. OCZ sent over 8 - 512MB sticks of their G5 DDR400 modules which are rated at 3-3-3-8, the slowest DDR400 I've ever used. Unfortunately it is the only stuff that the G5 will work with. I will admit that for my work machine I never really tweaked memory timings, I just left everything at SPD but in most cases SPD was at least 2-2-3-7. I'd like to see Apple migrate to some faster memory, especially considering the price premium these machines are going for, but that'll most likely have to wait for the next revision of the G5 systems. Lower latency memory will also give more of a benefit on the higher clocked G5s in any case.
The installation process was simple; it is memory after all. Unfortunately the first time I booted up the machine it only recognized 3GB. Luckily OS X's System Profiler will tell you what memory slots on the board are populated so I got the exact banks that weren't registering. I shut the system down, opened up the case (read: lifted a latch and removed a panel) and reseated the two DIMMs that weren't being detected properly. The second boot proved to be successful at 4GB. I did miss having a memory counter at POST to tell me how much memory I had installed before getting into the OS, but waiting a few seconds to get into OS X wasn't too bad.
The added memory helps a lot, right now I'm using 1.55GB and couldn't be happier. The OS seems to handle memory extremely well and will do its best to keep disk accesses from happening when they don't need to. I figure that for my needs ~2GB would be just about enough to have a very smooth running system, but I wouldn't recommend any less than 1GB for anyone putting together a G5 that's a decent multitasker. You can do just fine with only 512MB but throwing more at the OS does help.
When I first started talking about the way OS X favors keeping all programs open I mentioned that stability would be the determining factor as to whether or not this would be a good thing. I can say that I have encountered my first application crashes under OS X and they were as follows:
- Adium crashed when I was tinkering with antialiasing levels for my fonts in system properties; this has since been fixed in an update to Adium.
- Mail crashed randomly while dragging some text from a Safari window into an email
- Safari crashed once, I did not get a chance to completely document the crash; I was just surfing
- Dreamweaver has this issue where the page will disappear in design view while the HTML is there; I have to change something in the code to get the page to appear again. I encountered this problem while writing the ATI roadmap story.
Now the first two crashes were related to me doing funky GUI stuff; the first one has since been fixed and I haven't been able to duplicate the second one. Dreamweaver has issues under XP as well, although I've never seen this one in particular I've seen others so I'd be willing to accept that Dreamweaver was a Macromedia issue. Safari's crash was the first I had encountered, which was a bit surprising since I've been purposefully trying to bring it to its knees and haven't had much luck other than that one time.
So far I'm happy with the stability under OS X; the OS itself hasn't crashed and I would say that it is definitely no less stable than XP at this point and definitely with fewer individual application issues on a regular basis. I do believe (at least on the latest Apple hardware) that the Mac OS stability issues of the past (I've encountered them personally) are not an issue. But another thing to keep in mind is that just as is the case with PCs, a poorly maintained machine will be unstable. People installing everything they see, including poorly written drivers, will bring even the most stable of OSes to its knees - this applies to both OS X and XP. So be careful before you judge the stability of an OS based on a computer you used somewhere; would you really want people calling PCs "unstable" because of a crashy Windows ME machine they used in a public library somewhere? :)
After restarting several failed downloads, I finally got UT2004 to download. First of all, I couldn't find a link to the UT2004 Mac download on any of the official Epic sites when it was first released - I had to go to some Mac enthusiast sites. That's just plain wrong, I'll talk to Epic about it next time I get lunch with Tim and the gang. After I got the demo and installed it I decided to see how gaming on the Mac worked when you've got two displays.
Under XP, you pretty much have to disable your second display or close all the windows on your desktop so they don't get reorganized when running a game at a resolution different than that of your primary display. It is an annoying ordeal, but it's something that should be fixed once and for all in Longhorn. It's what we get for having ATI and NVIDIA late to the multimonitor game, otherwise we would've seen support in XP.
Under OS X, the second display shuts itself off, UT starts on my primary display and then when I'm done both displays return me to my desktop - nothing has moved an inch. I'm happy. It's the simple things that make the platform impressive (e.g. keyboard shortcuts, yes I'm a nut).
The speed of UT2004 at 10x7 on the Radeon 9600 was very good on the G5; the game was definitely smooth, but at higher resolutions the Radeon 9600 began to be a bottleneck. At 10x7 UT2004 is still fairly CPU bottlenecked but the G5s seemed to crunch along nicely. I would estimate that the higher end Athlon 64s and Pentium 4s would be faster, but the gap would definitely narrow at higher resolutions. I asked ATI for both an OEM Radeon 9800 Pro and the 9800 Pro SE so I'll be able to give you an idea of the 3D and more importantly, the 2D performance improvements offered by the two cards. As I mentioned before, once I get over 10 - 15 windows Exposé gets choppy, seemingly a video memory limitation issue. In theory moving to a 128MB/256MB Radeon 9800 should speed things up, but how much memory is necessary and what sort of a performance improvement are we talking? That's what I'm hoping to find out. I think I will start that Mac section on AT, these are the type of questions that need to be answered. The Mac section will not be another Mac vs. PC deal, that's not what the Mac community needs. It will be a section dedicated to Mac hardware and will offer articles like the one I was just talking about (impact of video memory size on Exposé performance), make sense? Any requests for comparisons to start off with? It won't launch until after the new AT database is in place (March) but I'm definitely committed to making it a reality.
As usual, I've got more "how do I?" requests for those with more OS X experience than me :)
1) Is there a keyboard shortcut to maximize a window? Is it even possible?
2) By default is there any keyboard shortcut to launch Terminal?
Hmm I honestly thought I had more questions than those two, I'm sure I'll think of them. It's getting late, time for me to turn in.
Hope you're enjoying these things, I sure am. Take care and goodnight.
44 Comments
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Jeff - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
I echo the sentiment of #31. Very nice job man!! Can't wait to see some kind of AnandMac™ section!ViRGE - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
Aye, so let me get this straight: ATI has a 9800 Pro Retail, a 9800 Pro, and a 9800 Pro SE. But unlike the (current) PC world, the OEM card is lower clocked than the retail card, but the SE card is >= the Pro card, and is overall better!? Somebody please smack ATI's CEO next time, these crazy SE naming schemes are getting out of hand, someone needs to decide if a SE card is supposed to be a good card or a bad card.Anyhow, getting back to the topic at hand, another thing that might be worth taking a look at on the Mac side with UT2K4 is audio. Software wise, the Mac platform doesn't have something as tightly integrated as DirectSound/EAX, instead using the more *nix-standard OpenAL. On the hardware side in turn, support from Creative is non-existant, so the SoundBlaster Live Mac-edition is stuck in Classic-land, leaving the M Audio Revolution as the only other discrete sound card out there that's even close to being gaming related. The G5's integrated audio is said to be >= Nvidia's SoundStorm in terms of quality, but I haven't seen any empirical evidence to back that up, and more importantly.
The point of all of this being however is that for one of your future Mac articles(a Mac Date or a full article), you might want to take a look at audio on the Mac as it relates to gaming. Just how good are the different Mac solutions out there, and why don't we have any sort of 3D audio support in the year 2004? These are questions even as a Mac user I don't know the answer to, and something that would make for a good article.
PS I Nth the Mac forum request, it's definately something worth having, even before the DB redesign
GL - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
Anand,I don't have a specific suggestion for the Mac article but I'll tell you one thing I observed at another web site that I thought was tremendously cool. A few of the forum members at Ars Technica's Macintosh Achaia benchmarked LAME (the MP3 encoder) on their Macs and realized it was a poor performer relative to x86 machines. They then took it upon themselves to tweak LAME with Altivec optimizations that led to tremendous performance gains. The thread in question is here - http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&am... - and is, IMHO, just fascinating. All those people talking about Mac users as if they're mentally incapable of using multi-button mice should check it out.
Maybe if you could profile in the AT Mac section some other open source tools that are under-performant on the Mac platform, then that would lead to more community-led efforts to resolve the situation.
Patrick - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
Hmm... I must say that to have someone of your stature in the PC world open up to Apple with such an intelligent and non-biased approach is truly a thing of beauty.You have instantly made me a loyal fan and I eagerly await your Mac section.
Thank you Anand.
SmurfTower - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
Have you tired OmniWeb browser?.http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/...
Anonymous - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
http://www.macosxhints.com :)robg1701 - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
heh, woops, refresh reposted that comment somehow :PDamien Sorresso - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
Anand: To start off the Mac section, I'd suggest posting an article detailing how to make a transition to OS X easier. If there are other x86 users like you who are interested in switching to, or have to work with OS X for whatever reason, your guide can serve as a handy reference point for workflow migration tips and software suggestions.It won't be an article meant to plug for Apple, but something more along the lines of "So you've decided to give Macs a shot."
Also, if you haven't found it already, check out www.macosxhints.com.
robg1701 - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
Oh, and I agree with #4, turning off the 2nd display seems like a crude method to me. I have a tri-monitor setup of 19+22+19" (imminently becoming quad screens with the 28"WS TV) and I never turn the secondarys off anymore. I mostly play at desktop resolution, but there are a few games I have which simply dont support resolutions that high. For those i either reposition the monitors supposed locations, or simply get on with it and put up with a little reorganisation going on whilst its loading ;)The only game ive ever turned them off for was splinter cell, which whilst playable with them on, did show slight graphical glitches unles they were off (but i think we can all agree it had more than its fair share of those ;P).
joe - Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - link
One last comment from the article. I think Apple has it right.Focusing on that stuff misses the whole point anyway. GarageBand is absolutely unique and will revolutionize desktop music. Not because of its features, but because of the miraculous ways that these features have been combined into a tool that -- just like iMovie -- delivers incredible expressive power to people who have more creativity and enthusiasm than specific technical skill.
The snarky way to finish this column would be to say that the thousands of untrained auteurs who produce their own porno films with iMovie and iDVD can at long last create completely original and creatively-appropriate soundtracks for them as well.
But in truth, GarageBand is one of those extremely rare apps that changes the entire creative landscape. This year, a film that swept the Sundance festival was made with iMovie for less than $200. This time next year, who can say how many great works will owe their creation to GarageBand?